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□アメリカ大統領選挙 第一回テレビ討論会(原文) その1
http://www.jihadunspun.net/index-side_external.php?article=99946&list=/home.php&
Transcript: First Presidential Debate
September 30, 2004 from Coral Gables, Fla.
Text From FDCH E-Media
Following is the transcript of the presidential debate between President Bush (R) and Sen. John F. Kerry (D). The moderator of the nationally televised debate was Jim Lehrer of PBS.
LEHRER:ﾊGood evening from the University of Miami Convocation Center in Coral Gables, Florida.ﾊI'm Jim Lehrer of "The NewsHour" on PBS.
And I welcome you to the first of the 2004 presidential debates between President George W. Bush, the Republican nominee, and Senator John Kerry, the Democratic nominee.
These debates are sponsored by the Commission on Presidential Debates.ﾊ
Tonight's will last 90 minutes, following detailed rules of engagement worked out by representatives of the candidates.ﾊI have agreed to enforce their rules on them.ﾊ
The umbrella topic is foreign policy and homeland security, but the specific subjects were chosen by me, the questions were composed by me, the candidates have not been told what they are, nor has anyone else.
For each question there can only be a two-minute response, a 90- second rebuttal and, at my discretion, a discussion extension of one minute.
A green light will come on when 30 seconds remain in any given answer, yellow at 15, red at five seconds, and then flashing red means time's up.ﾊThere is also a backup buzzer system if needed.
Candidates may not direct a question to each other.ﾊThere will be two-minute closing statements, but no opening statements.
There is an audience here in the hall, but they will remain absolutely silent for the next 90 minutes, except for now, when they join me in welcoming President Bush and Senator Kerry.
(APPLAUSE)
LEHRER:ﾊGood evening, Mr. President, Senator Kerry.
As determined by a coin toss, the first question goes to you, Senator Kerry.ﾊYou have two minutes.ﾊ
Do you believe you could do a better job than President Bush in preventing another 9/11-type terrorist attack on the United States?
KERRY:ﾊYes, I do.
But before I answer further, let me thank you for moderating.ﾊI want to thank the University of Miami for hosting us.ﾊAnd I know the president will join me in welcoming all of Florida to this debate. You've been through the roughest weeks anybody could imagine.ﾊOur hearts go out to you.ﾊAnd we admire your pluck and perseverance.
KERRY:ﾊI can make American safer than President Bush has made us.ﾊ
And I believe President Bush and I both love our country equally. But we just have a different set of convictions about how you make America safe.ﾊ
I believe America is safest and strongest when we are leading the world and we are leading strong alliances.
I'll never give a veto to any country over our security.ﾊBut I also know how to lead those alliances.ﾊ
This president has left them in shatters across the globe, and we're now 90 percent of the casualties in Iraq and 90 percent of the costs.ﾊ
I think that's wrong, and I think we can do better.ﾊ
I have a better plan for homeland security.ﾊI have a better plan to be able to fight the war on terror by strengthening our military, strengthening our intelligence, by going after the financing more authoritatively, by doing what we need to do to rebuild the alliances, by reaching out to the Muslim world, which the president has almost not done, and beginning to isolate the radical Islamic Muslims, not have them isolate the United States of America.ﾊ
KERRY:ﾊI know I can do a better job in Iraq.ﾊI have a plan to have a summit with all of the allies, something this president has not yet achieved, not yet been able to do to bring people to the table.ﾊ
We can do a better job of training the Iraqi forces to defend themselves, and I know that we can do a better job of preparing for elections.
All of these, and especially homeland security, which we'll talk about a little bit later.
LEHRER:ﾊMr. President, you have a 90-second rebuttal.
BUSH:ﾊI, too, thank the University of Miami, and say our prayers are with the good people of this state, who've suffered a lot.
September the 11th changed how America must look at the world. And since that day, our nation has been on a multi-pronged strategy to keep our country safer.
BUSH:ﾊWe pursued al Qaeda wherever al Qaeda tries to hide. Seventy-five percent of known al Qaeda leaders have been brought to justice.ﾊThe rest of them know we're after them.ﾊ
We've upheld the doctrine that said if you harbor a terrorist, you're equally as guilty as the terrorist.ﾊ
And the Taliban are no longer in power.ﾊTen million people have registered to vote in Afghanistan in the upcoming presidential election.
In Iraq, we saw a threat, and we realized that after September the 11th, we must take threats seriously, before they fully materialize.ﾊSaddam Hussein now sits in a prison cell.ﾊAmerica and the world are safer for it.ﾊ
We continue to pursue our policy of disrupting those who proliferate weapons of mass destruction.
BUSH:ﾊLibya has disarmed.ﾊThe A.Q. Khan network has been brought to justice.
And, as well, we're pursuing a strategy of freedom around the world, because I understand free nations will reject terror.ﾊFree nations will answer the hopes and aspirations of their people.ﾊFree nations will help us achieve the peace we all want.
LEHRER:ﾊNew question, Mr. President, two minutes.ﾊ
Do you believe the election of Senator Kerry on November the 2nd would increase the chances of the U.S. being hit by another 9/11-type terrorist attack?
BUSH:ﾊNo, I don't believe it's going to happen.ﾊI believe I'm going to win, because the American people know I know how to lead. I've shown the American people I know how to lead.
I have -- I understand everybody in this country doesn't agree with the decisions I've made.ﾊAnd I made some tough decisions.ﾊBut people know where I stand.ﾊ
People out there listening know what I believe.ﾊAnd that's how best it is to keep the peace.
This nation of ours has got a solemn duty to defeat this ideology of hate.ﾊAnd that's what they are.ﾊThis is a group of killers who will not only kill here, but kill children in Russia, that'll attack unmercifully in Iraq, hoping to shake our will.
We have a duty to defeat this enemy.ﾊWe have a duty to protect our children and grandchildren.
The best way to defeat them is to never waver, to be strong, to use every asset at our disposal, is to constantly stay on the offensive and, at the same time, spread liberty.ﾊ
And that's what people are seeing now is happening in Afghanistan.ﾊ
Ten million citizens have registered to vote.ﾊIt's a phenomenal statistic.ﾊThey're given a chance to be free, and they will show up at the polls.ﾊForty-one percent of those 10 million are women.
In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough.ﾊIt's hard work.ﾊIt's incredibly hard.ﾊYou know why?ﾊBecause an enemy realizes the stakes. The enemy understands a free Iraq will be a major defeat in their ideology of hatred.ﾊThat's why they're fighting so vociferously.ﾊ
They showed up in Afghanistan when they were there, because they tried to beat us and they didn't.ﾊAnd they're showing up in Iraq for the same reason.ﾊThey're trying to defeat us.
And if we lose our will, we lose.ﾊBut if we remain strong and resolute, we will defeat this enemy.
LEHRER:ﾊNinety second response, Senator Kerry.
KERRY:ﾊI believe in being strong and resolute and determined. And I will hunt down and kill the terrorists, wherever they are.
But we also have to be smart, Jim.ﾊAnd smart means not diverting your attention from the real war on terror in Afghanistan against Osama bin Laden and taking if off to Iraq where the 9/11 Commission confirms there was no connection to 9/11 itself and Saddam Hussein, and where the reason for going to war was weapons of mass destruction, not the removal of Saddam Hussein.ﾊ
KERRY:ﾊThis president has made, I regret to say, a colossal error of judgment.ﾊAnd judgment is what we look for in the president of the United States of America.ﾊ
I'm proud that important military figures who are supporting me in this race:ﾊformer Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff John Shalikashvili; just yesterday, General Eisenhower's son, General John Eisenhower, endorsed me; General Admiral William Crown; General Tony McBeak, who ran the Air Force war so effectively for his father -- all believe I would make a stronger commander in chief.ﾊAnd they believe it because they know I would not take my eye off of the goal:ﾊOsama bin Laden.
KERRY:ﾊUnfortunately, he escaped in the mountains of Tora Bora. We had him surrounded.ﾊBut we didn't use American forces, the best trained in the world, to go kill him.ﾊThe president relied on Afghan warlords and he outsourced that job too.ﾊThat's wrong.
LEHRER:ﾊNew question, two minutes, Senator Kerry.ﾊ
"Colossal misjudgments."ﾊWhat colossal misjudgments, in your opinion, has President Bush made in these areas?
KERRY:ﾊWell, where do you want me to begin?
First of all, he made the misjudgment of saying to America that he was going to build a true alliance, that he would exhaust the remedies of the United Nations and go through the inspections.
In fact, he first didn't even want to do that.ﾊAnd it wasn't until former Secretary of State Jim Baker and General Scowcroft and others pushed publicly and said you've got to go to the U.N., that the president finally changed his mind -- his campaign has a word for that -- and went to the United Nations.
Now, once there, we could have continued those inspections.ﾊ
We had Saddam Hussein trapped.
He also promised America that he would go to war as a last resort.ﾊ
Those words mean something to me, as somebody who has been in combat.ﾊ"Last resort."ﾊYou've got to be able to look in the eyes of families and say to those parents, "I tried to do everything in my power to prevent the loss of your son and daughter."ﾊ
I don't believe the United States did that.ﾊ
And we pushed our allies aside.ﾊ
And so, today, we are 90 percent of the casualties and 90 percent of the cost:ﾊ$200 billion -- $200 billion that could have been used for health care, for schools, for construction, for prescription drugs for seniors, and it's in Iraq.ﾊ
And Iraq is not even the center of the focus of the war on terror.ﾊThe center is Afghanistan, where, incidentally, there were more Americans killed last year than the year before; where the opium production is 75 percent of the world's opium production; where 40 to 60 percent of the economy of Afghanistan is based on opium; where the elections have been postponed three times.ﾊ
KERRY:ﾊThe president moved the troops, so he's got 10 times the number of troops in Iraq than he has in Afghanistan, where Osama bin Laden is.ﾊDoes that mean that Saddam Hussein was 10 times more important than Osama bin Laden -- than, excuse me, Saddam Hussein more important than Osama bin Laden?ﾊI don't think so.
LEHRER:ﾊNinety-second response, Mr. President.
BUSH:ﾊMy opponent looked at the same intelligence I looked at and declared in 2002 that Saddam Hussein was a grave threat.ﾊ
He also said in December of 2003 that anyone who doubts that the world is safer without Saddam Hussein does not have the judgment to be president.
I agree with him.ﾊThe world is better off without Saddam Hussein.ﾊ
I was hoping diplomacy would work.ﾊI understand the serious consequences of committing our troops into harm's way.ﾊ
BUSH:ﾊIt's the hardest decision a president makes.ﾊSo I went to the United Nations.ﾊI didn't need anybody to tell me to go to the United Nations.ﾊI decided to go there myself.ﾊ
And I went there hoping that, once and for all, the free world would act in concert to get Saddam Hussein to listen to our demands. They passed the resolution that said, "Disclose, disarm, or face serious consequences."ﾊI believe, when an international body speaks, it must mean what it says.
Saddam Hussein had no intention of disarming.ﾊWhy should he?ﾊHe had 16 other resolutions and nothing took place.ﾊAs a matter of fact, my opponent talks about inspectors.ﾊThe facts are that he was systematically deceiving the inspectors.ﾊ
That wasn't going to work.ﾊThat's kind of a pre-September 10th mentality, the hope that somehow resolutions and failed inspections would make this world a more peaceful place.ﾊ
He was hoping we'd turn away.ﾊBut there was fortunately others beside himself who believed that we ought to take action.ﾊ
BUSH:ﾊWe did.ﾊThe world is safer without Saddam Hussein.ﾊ
LEHRER:ﾊNew question, Mr. President.ﾊTwo minutes.
What about Senator Kerry's point, the comparison he drew between the priorities of going after Osama bin Laden and going after Saddam Hussein?
BUSH:ﾊJim, we've got the capability of doing both.ﾊ
As a matter of fact, this is a global effort.ﾊ
We're facing a group of folks who have such hatred in their heart, they'll strike anywhere, with any means.
And that's why it's essential that we have strong alliances, and we do.ﾊ
That's why it's essential that we make sure that we keep weapons of mass destruction out of the hands of people like al Qaeda, which we are.
But to say that there's only one focus on the war on terror doesn't really understand the nature of the war on terror.ﾊ
Of course we're after Saddam Hussein -- I mean bin Laden.ﾊHe's isolated.ﾊSeventy-five percent of his people have been brought to justice.ﾊThe killer -- the mastermind of the September 11th attacks, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, is in prison.
BUSH:ﾊWe're making progress.
But the front on this war is more than just one place.ﾊThe Philippines -- we've got help -- we're helping them there to bring -- to bring al Qaeda affiliates to justice there.
And, of course, Iraq is a central part in the war on terror. That's why Zarqawi and his people are trying to fight us.ﾊTheir hope is that we grow weary and we leave.
The biggest disaster that could happen is that we not succeed in Iraq.ﾊWe will succeed.ﾊWe've got a plan to do so.ﾊAnd the main reason we'll succeed is because the Iraqis want to be free.ﾊ
I had the honor of visiting with Prime Minister Allawi.ﾊHe's a strong, courageous leader.ﾊHe believes in the freedom of the Iraqi people.ﾊ
He doesn't want U.S. leadership, however, to send mixed signals, to not stand with the Iraqi people.ﾊ
He believes, like I believe, that the Iraqis are ready to fight for their own freedom.ﾊThey just need the help to be trained.
There will be elections in January.ﾊWe're spending reconstruction money.ﾊAnd our alliance is strong.
BUSH:ﾊThat's the plan for victory.ﾊ
And when Iraq if free, America will be more secure.ﾊ
LEHRER:ﾊSenator Kerry, 90 seconds.
KERRY:ﾊThe president just talked about Iraq as a center of the war on terror.ﾊIraq was not even close to the center of the war on terror before the president invaded it.ﾊ
The president made the judgment to divert forces from under General Tommy Franks from Afghanistan before the Congress even approved it to begin to prepare to go to war in Iraq.ﾊ
And he rushed the war in Iraq without a plan to win the peace. Now, that is not the judgment that a president of the United States ought to make.ﾊYou don't take America to war unless have the plan to win the peace.ﾊYou don't send troops to war without the body armor that they need.
KERRY:ﾊI've met kids in Ohio, parents in Wisconsin places, Iowa, where they're going out on the Internet to get the state-of-the-art body gear to send to their kids.ﾊSome of them got them for a birthday present.
I think that's wrong.ﾊHumvees -- 10,000 out of 12,000 Humvees that are over there aren't armored.ﾊAnd you go visit some of those kids in the hospitals today who were maimed because they don't have the armament.
This president just -- I don't know if he sees what's really happened on there.ﾊBut it's getting worse by the day.ﾊMore soldiers killed in June than before.ﾊMore in July than June.ﾊMore in August than July.ﾊMore in September than in August.
And now we see beheadings.ﾊAnd we got weapons of mass destruction crossing the border every single day, and they're blowing people up.ﾊAnd we don't have enough troops there.
BUSH:ﾊCan I respond to that?
LEHRER:ﾊLet's do one of these one-minute extensions.ﾊYou have 30 seconds.
BUSH:ﾊThank you, sir.
First of all, what my opponent wants you to forget is that he voted to authorize the use of force and now says it's the wrong war at the wrong time at the wrong place.
BUSH:ﾊI don't see how you can lead this country to succeed in Iraq if you say wrong war, wrong time, wrong place.ﾊWhat message does that send our troops?ﾊWhat message does that send to our allies? What message does that send the Iraqis?ﾊ
No, the way to win this is to be steadfast and resolved and to follow through on the plan that I've just outlined.ﾊ
LEHRER:ﾊThirty seconds, Senator.
KERRY:ﾊYes, we have to be steadfast and resolved, and I am.ﾊAnd I will succeed for those troops, now that we're there.ﾊWe have to succeed.ﾊWe can't leave a failed Iraq.ﾊBut that doesn't mean it wasn't a mistake of judgment to go there and take the focus off of Osama bin Laden.ﾊIt was.ﾊNow, we can succeed.ﾊBut I don't believe this president can.ﾊI think we need a president who has the credibility to bring the allies back to the table and to do what's necessary to make it so America isn't doing this alone.
LEHRER:ﾊWe'll come back to Iraq in a moment.ﾊBut I want to come back to where I began, on homeland security.ﾊThis is a two-minute new question, Senator Kerry.ﾊ
As president, what would you do, specifically, in addition to or differently to increase the homeland security of the United States than what President Bush is doing?
Jim, let me tell you exactly what I'll do.ﾊAnd there are a long list of thing.ﾊFirst of all, what kind of mixed message does it send when you have $500 million going over to Iraq to put police officers in the streets of Iraq, and the president is cutting the COPS program in America?
What kind of message does it send to be sending money to open firehouses in Iraq, but we're shutting firehouses who are the first- responders here in America.
The president hasn't put one nickel, not one nickel into the effort to fix some of our tunnels and bridges and most exposed subway systems.ﾊThat's why they had to close down the subway in New York when the Republican Convention was there.ﾊWe hadn't done the work that ought to be done.
The presidentﾊ-- 95 percent of the containers that come into the ports, right here in Florida, are not inspected.ﾊ
Civilians get onto aircraft, and their luggage is X- rayed, but the cargo hold is not X-rayed.ﾊ
Does that make you feel safer in America?
This president thought it was more important to give the wealthiest people in America a tax cut rather than invest in homeland security.ﾊThose aren't my values.ﾊI believe in protecting America first.
And long before President Bush and I get a tax cut -- and that's who gets it -- long before we do, I'm going to invest in homeland security and I'm going to make sure we're not cutting COPS programs in America and we're fully staffed in our firehouses and that we protect the nuclear and chemical plants.
The president also unfortunately gave in to the chemical industry, which didn't want to do some of the things necessary to strengthen our chemical plant exposure.ﾊ
And there's an enormous undone job to protect the loose nuclear materials in the world that are able to get to terrorists.ﾊThat's a whole other subject, but I see we still have a little bit more time.ﾊ
KERRY:ﾊLet me just quickly say, at the current pace, the president will not secure the loose material in the Soviet Union -- former Soviet Union for 13 years.ﾊI'm going to do it in four years. And we're going to keep it out of the hands of terrorists.
LEHRER:ﾊNinety-second response, Mr. President.
BUSH:ﾊI don't think we want to get to how he's going to pay for all these promises.ﾊIt's like a huge tax gap.ﾊAnyway, that's for another debate.
My administration has tripled the amount of money we're spending on homeland security to $30 billion a year.ﾊ
My administration worked with the Congress to create the Department of Homeland Security so we could better coordinate our borders and ports.ﾊWe've got 1,000 extra border patrol on the southern border; want 1,000 on the northern border.ﾊWe're modernizing our borders.ﾊ
We spent $3.1 billion for fire and police, $3.1 billion.ﾊ
We're doing our duty to provide the funding.
But the best way to protect this homeland is to stay on the offense.ﾊ
BUSH:ﾊYou know, we have to be right 100 percent of the time. And the enemy only has to be right once to hurt us.ﾊ
There's a lot of good people working hard.ﾊ
And by the way, we've also changed the culture of the FBI to have counterterrorism as its number one priority.ﾊWe're communicating better.ﾊWe're going to reform our intelligence services to make sure that we get the best intelligence possible.ﾊ
The Patriot Act is vital -- is vital that the Congress renew the Patriot Act which enables our law enforcement to disrupt terror cells.ﾊ
But again, I repeat to my fellow citizens, the best way to protection is to stay on the offense.ﾊ
LEHRER:ﾊYes, let's do a little -- yes, 30 seconds.ﾊ
KERRY:ﾊThe president just said the FBI had changed its culture. We just read on the front pages of America's papers that there are over 100,000 hours of tapes, unlistened to.ﾊOn one of those tapes may be the enemy being right the next time.ﾊ
KERRY:ﾊAnd the test is not whether you're spending more money. The test is, are you doing everything possible to make America safe?
We didn't need that tax cut.ﾊAmerica needed to be safe.
BUSH:ﾊOf course we're doing everything we can to protect America.ﾊI wake up every day thinking about how best to protect America.ﾊThat's my job.
I work with Director Mueller of the FBI; comes in my office when I'm in Washington every morning, talking about how to protect us. There's a lot of really good people working hard to do so.ﾊ
It's hard work.ﾊBut, again, I want to tell the American people, we're doing everything we can at home, but you better have a president who chases these terrorists down and bring them to justice before they hurt us again.
LEHRER:ﾊNew question, Mr. President.ﾊTwo minutes.ﾊ
What criteria would you use to determine when to start bringing U.S. troops home from Iraq?
BUSH:ﾊLet me first tell you that the best way for Iraq to be safe and secure is for Iraqi citizens to be trained to do the job.
BUSH:ﾊAnd that's what we're doing.ﾊWe've got 100,000 trained now, 125,000 by the end of this year, 200,000 by the end of next year. That is the best way.ﾊWe'll never succeed in Iraq if the Iraqi citizens do not want to take matters into their own hands to protect themselves.ﾊI believe they want to.ﾊPrime Minister Allawi believes they want to.ﾊ
And so the best indication about when we can bring our troops home -- which I really want to do, but I don't want to do so for the sake of bringing them home; I want to do so because we've achieved an objective -- is to see the Iraqis perform and to see the Iraqis step up and take responsibility.ﾊ
And so, the answer to your question is:ﾊWhen our general is on the ground and Ambassador Negroponte tells me that Iraq is ready to defend herself from these terrorists, that elections will have been held by then, that their stability and that they're on their way to, you know, a nation that's free; that's when.ﾊ
BUSH:ﾊAnd I hope it's as soon as possible.ﾊBut I know putting artificial deadlines won't work.ﾊMy opponent at one time said, "Well, get me elected, I'll have them out of there in six months."ﾊYou can't do that and expect to win the war on terror.ﾊ
My message to our troops is, "Thank you for what you're doing. We're standing with you strong.ﾊWe'll give you all the equipment you need.ﾊAnd we'll get you home as soon as the mission's done, because this is a vital mission."ﾊ
A free Iraq will be an ally in the war on terror, and that's essential.ﾊA free Iraq will set a powerful example in the part of the world that is desperate for freedom.ﾊA free Iraq will help secure Israel.ﾊA free Iraq will enforce the hopes and aspirations of the reformers in places like Iran.ﾊA free Iraq is essential for the security of this country.
LEHRER:ﾊNinety seconds, Senator Kerry.
KERRY:ﾊThank you, Jim.
My message to the troops is also:ﾊThank you for what they're doing, but it's also help is on the way.ﾊI believe those troops deserve better than what they are getting today.
You know, it's interesting.ﾊWhen I was in a rope line just the other day, coming out here from Wisconsin, a couple of young returnees were in the line, one active duty, one from the Guard.ﾊAnd they both looked at me and said:ﾊWe need you.ﾊYou've got to help us over there.ﾊ
Now I believe there's a better way to do this.ﾊYou know, the president's father did not go into Iraq, into Baghdad, beyond Basra. And the reason he didn't is, he said -- he wrote in his book -- because there was no viable exit strategy.ﾊAnd he said our troops would be occupiers in a bitterly hostile land.ﾊ
That's exactly where we find ourselves today.ﾊThere's a sense of American occupation.ﾊThe only building that was guarded when the troops when into Baghdad was the oil ministry.ﾊWe didn't guard the nuclear facilities.
KERRY:ﾊWe didn't guard the foreign office, where you might have found information about weapons of mass destruction.ﾊWe didn't guard the borders.ﾊ
Almost every step of the way, our troops have been left on these extraordinarily difficult missions.ﾊI know what it's like to go out on one of those missions when you don't know what's around the corner.ﾊ
And I believe our troops need other allies helping.ﾊI'm going to hold that summit.ﾊI will bring fresh credibility, a new start, and we will get the job done right.ﾊ
LEHRER:ﾊAll right, go ahead.ﾊYes, sir?ﾊ
BUSH:ﾊI think it's worthy for a follow-up.ﾊ
LEHRER:ﾊSure, right.ﾊ
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