□アメリカ大統領選挙　第一回テレビ討論会(原文)　その3

　http://www.jihadunspun.net/index-side_external.php?article=99946&list=/home.php&

LEHRER:ﾊSenator Kerry, 90 seconds.

KERRY:ﾊJim, the president just said something extraordinarily revealing and frankly very important in this debate.ﾊIn answer to your question about Iraq and sending people into Iraq, he just said, "The enemy attacked us."ﾊ

Saddam Hussein didn't attack us.ﾊOsama bin Laden attacked us. al Qaeda attacked us.ﾊAnd when we had Osama bin Laden cornered in the mountains of Tora Bora, 1,000 of his cohorts with him in those mountains.ﾊWith the American military forces nearby and in the field, we didn't use the best trained troops in the world to go kill the world's number one criminal and terrorist.ﾊ

They outsourced the job to Afghan warlords, who only a week earlier had been on the other side fighting against us, neither of whom trusted each other.

That's the enemy that attacked us.ﾊThat's the enemy that was allowed to walk out of those mountains.ﾊThat's the enemy that is now in 60 countries, with stronger recruits.

He also said Saddam Hussein would have been stronger.ﾊThat is just factually incorrect.ﾊTwo-thirds of the country was a no-fly zone when we started this war.ﾊWe would have had sanctions.ﾊWe would have had the U.N. inspectors.ﾊSaddam Hussein would have been continually weakening.

If the president had shown the patience to go through another round of resolution, to sit down with those leaders, say, "What do you need, what do you need now, how much more will it take to get you to join us?" we'd be in a stronger place today.

LEHRER:ﾊThirty seconds.

BUSH:ﾊFirst of all, of course I know Osama bin Laden attacked us.ﾊI know that.ﾊ

And secondly, to think that another round of resolutions would have caused Saddam Hussein to disarm, disclose, is ludicrous, in my judgment.ﾊIt just shows a significant difference of opinion.

We tried diplomacy.ﾊWe did our best.ﾊHe was hoping to turn a blind eye.ﾊAnd, yes, he would have been stronger had we not dealt with him.ﾊHe had the capability of making weapons, and he would have made weapons.

LEHRER:ﾊThirty seconds, Senator.

KERRY:ﾊThirty-five to forty countries in the world had a greater capability of making weapons at the moment the president invaded than Saddam Hussein.ﾊAnd while he's been diverted, with 9 out of 10 active duty divisions of our Army, either going to Iraq, coming back from Iraq, or getting ready to go, North Korea's gotten nuclear weapons and the world is more dangerous.ﾊIran is moving toward nuclear weapons and the world is more dangerous.ﾊDarfur has a genocide.ﾊ

KERRY:ﾊThe world is more dangerous.ﾊI'd have made a better choice.

LEHRER:ﾊNew question.ﾊTwo minutes, Senator Kerry.ﾊ

What is your position on the whole concept of preemptive war?

KERRY:ﾊThe president always has the right, and always has had the right, for preemptive strike.ﾊThat was a great doctrine throughout the Cold War.ﾊAnd it was always one of the things we argued about with respect to arms control.

No president, though all of American history, has ever ceded, and nor would I, the right to preempt in any way necessary to protect the United States of America.ﾊ

But if and when you do it, Jim, you have to do it in a way that passes the test, that passes the global test where your countrymen, your people understand fully why you're doing what you're doing and you can prove to the world that you did it for legitimate reasons.

Here we have our own secretary of state who has had to apologize to the world for the presentation he made to the United Nations.ﾊ

KERRY:ﾊI mean, we can remember when President Kennedy in the Cuban missile crisis sent his secretary of state to Paris to meet with DeGaulle.ﾊAnd in the middle of the discussion, to tell them about the missiles in Cuba, he said, "Here, let me show you the photos."ﾊAnd DeGaulle waved them off and said, "No, no, no, no.ﾊThe word of the president of the United States is good enough for me."

How many leaders in the world today would respond to us, as a result of what we've done, in that way?ﾊSo what is at test here is the credibility of the United States of America and how we lead the world.ﾊAnd Iran and Iraq are now more dangerous -- Iran and North Korea are now more dangerous.ﾊ

Now, whether preemption is ultimately what has to happen, I don't know yet.ﾊBut I'll tell you this:ﾊAs president, I'll never take my eye off that ball.ﾊI've been fighting for proliferation the entire time -- anti-proliferation the entire time I've been in the Congress. And we've watched this president actually turn away from some of the treaties that were on the table.ﾊ

KERRY:ﾊYou don't help yourself with other nations when you turn away from the global warming treaty, for instance, or when you refuse to deal at length with the United Nations.ﾊ

You have to earn that respect.ﾊAnd I think we have a lot of earning back to do.ﾊ

LEHRER:ﾊNinety seconds.ﾊ

BUSH:ﾊLet me -- I'm not exactly sure what you mean, "passes the global test," you take preemptive action if you pass a global test.ﾊ

My attitude is you take preemptive action in order to protect the American people, that you act in order to make this country secure.ﾊ

My opponent talks about me not signing certain treaties.ﾊLet me tell you one thing I didn't sign, and I think it shows the difference of our opinion -- the difference of opinions.

And that is, I wouldn't join the International Criminal Court. It's a body based in The Hague where unaccountable judges and prosecutors can pull our troops or diplomats up for trial.

BUSH:ﾊAnd I wouldn't join it.ﾊAnd I understand that in certain capitals around the world that that wasn't a popular move.ﾊBut it's the right move not to join a foreign court that could -- where our people could be prosecuted.

My opponent is for joining the International Criminal Court.ﾊI just think trying to be popular, kind of, in the global sense, if it's not in our best interest makes no sense.ﾊI'm interested in working with our nations and do a lot of it.ﾊBut I'm not going to make decisions that I think are wrong for America.

LEHRER:ﾊNew question, Mr. President.ﾊDo you believe that diplomacy and sanctions can resolve the nuclear problems with North Korea and Iran?ﾊTake them in any order you would like.

BUSH:ﾊNorth Korea, first, I do.ﾊLet me say -- I certainly hope so.ﾊBefore I was sworn in, the policy of this government was to have bilateral negotiations with North Korea.ﾊ

And we signed an agreement with North Korea that my administration found out that was not being honored by the North Koreans.

And so I decided that a better way to approach the issue was to get other nations involved, just besides us.ﾊAnd in Crawford, Texas, Jiang Zemin and I agreed that the nuclear-weapons-free peninsula, Korean Peninsula, was in his interest and our interest and the world's interest.

And so we began a new dialogue with North Korea, one that included not only the United States, but now China.ﾊAnd China's a got a lot of influence over North Korea, some ways more than we do.

As well, we included South Korea, Japan and Russia.ﾊSo now there are five voices speaking to Kim Jong Il, not just one.

And so if Kim Jong Il decides again to not honor an agreement, he's not only doing injustice to America, he'd be doing injustice to China, as well.

BUSH:ﾊAnd I think this will work.ﾊIt's not going to work if we open up a dialogue with Kim Jong Il.ﾊHe wants to unravel the six- party talks, or the five-nation coalition that's sending him a clear message.ﾊ

On Iran, I hope we can do the same thing, continue to work with the world to convince the Iranian mullahs to abandon their nuclear ambitions.ﾊ

We worked very closely with the foreign ministers of France, Germany and Great Britain, who have been the folks delivering the message to the mullahs that if you expect to be part of the world of nations, get rid of your nuclear programs.ﾊ

The IAEA is involved.ﾊThere's a special protocol recently been passed that allows for inspections.ﾊ

I hope we can do it.ﾊAnd we've got a good strategy.

LEHRER:ﾊSenator Kerry, 90 seconds.

KERRY:ﾊWith respect to Iran, the British, French, and Germans were the ones who initiated an effort without the United States, regrettably, to begin to try to move to curb the nuclear possibilities in Iran.ﾊI believe we could have done better.ﾊ

I think the United States should have offered the opportunity to provide the nuclear fuel, test them, see whether or not they were actually looking for it for peaceful purposes.ﾊIf they weren't willing to work a deal, then we could have put sanctions together. The president did nothing.

With respect to North Korea, the real story:ﾊWe had inspectors and television cameras in the nuclear reactor in North Korea. Secretary Bill Perry negotiated that under President Clinton.ﾊAnd we knew where the fuel rods were.ﾊAnd we knew the limits on their nuclear power.ﾊ

Colin Powell, our secretary of state, announced one day that we were going to continue the dialog of working with the North Koreans. The president reversed it publicly while the president of South Korea was here.ﾊ

KERRY:ﾊAnd the president of South Korea went back to South Korea bewildered and embarrassed because it went against his policy.ﾊAnd for two years, this administration didn't talk at all to North Korea.

While they didn't talk at all, the fuel rods came out, the inspectors were kicked out, the television cameras were kicked out. And today, there are four to seven nuclear weapons in the hands of North Korea.ﾊ

That happened on this president's watch.

Now, that, I think, is one of the most serious, sort of, reversals or mixed messages that you could possibly send.

LEHRER:ﾊI want to make sure -- yes, sir -- but in this one minute, I want to make sure that we understand -- the people watching understand the differences between the two of you on this.

You want to continue the multinational talks, correct?

BUSH:ﾊRight.

LEHRER:ﾊAnd you're willing to do it...

KERRY:ﾊBoth.ﾊI want bilateral talks which put all of the issues, from the armistice of 1952, the economic issues, the human rights issues, the artillery disposal issues, the DMZ issues and the nuclear issues on the table.

LEHRER:ﾊAnd you're opposed to that.ﾊRight?

BUSH:ﾊThe minute we have bilateral talks, the six-party talks will unwind.ﾊThat's exactly what Kim Jong Il wants.ﾊAnd by the way, the breach on the agreement was not through plutonium.ﾊThe breach on the agreement is highly enriched uranium.ﾊThat's what we caught him doing.ﾊThat's where he was breaking the agreement.

Secondly, he said -- my opponent said where he worked to put sanctions on Iran -- we've already sanctioned Iran.ﾊWe can't sanction them any more.ﾊThere are sanctions in place on Iran.ﾊ

And finally, we were a party to the convention -- to working with Germany, France and Great Britain to send their foreign ministers into Iran.ﾊ

LEHRER:ﾊNew question, two minutes.

Senator Kerry, you mentioned Darfur, the Darfur region of Sudan. Fifty thousand people have already died in that area.ﾊMore than a million are homeless.ﾊAnd it's been labeled an act of ongoing genocide.ﾊYet neither one of you or anyone else connected with your campaigns or your administration that I can find has discussed the possibility of sending in troops.ﾊ

LEHRER:ﾊWhy not?

KERRY:ﾊWell, I'll tell you exactly why not, but I first want to say something about those sanctions on Iran.

Only the United States put the sanctions on alone, and that's exactly what I'm talking about.

In order for the sanctions to be effective, we should have been working with the British, French and Germans and other countries.ﾊAnd that's the difference between the president and me.ﾊ

And there, again, he sort of slid by the question.

Now, with respect to Darfur, yes, it is a genocide.ﾊAnd months ago, many of us were pressing for action.ﾊ

I think the reason that we're not saying send American troops in at this point is severalfold.

Number one, we can do this through the African Union, providing we give them the logistical support.ﾊRight now all the president is providing is humanitarian support.ﾊWe need to do more than that. They've got to have the logistical capacity to go in and stop the killing.ﾊAnd that's going to require more than is on the table today.

I also believe that it is -- one of the reasons we can't do it is we're overextended.ﾊ

KERRY:ﾊAsk the people in the armed forces today.ﾊWe've got Guards and Reserves who are doing double duties.ﾊWe've got a backdoor draft taking place in America today:ﾊpeople with stop-loss programs where they're told you can't get out of the military; nine out of our 10 active duty divisions committed to Iraq one way or the other, either going, coming or preparing.ﾊ

So this is the way the president has overextended the United States.ﾊ

That's why, in my plan, I add two active duty divisions to the United States Army, not for Iraq, but for our general demands across the globe.ﾊ

I also intend to double the number of special forces so that we can do the job we need to do with respect fighting the terrorists around the world.ﾊAnd if we do that, then we have the ability to be able to respond more rapidly.ﾊ

But I'll tell you this, as president, if it took American forces to some degree to coalesce the African Union, I'd be prepared to do it because we could never allow another Rwanda.ﾊ

KERRY:ﾊIt's the moral responsibility for us and the world.

LEHRER:ﾊNinety seconds.

BUSH:ﾊBack to Iran, just for a second.ﾊ

It was not my administration that put the sanctions on Iran. That happened long before I arrived in Washington, D.C.

In terms of Darfur, I agree it's genocide.ﾊAnd Colin Powell so stated.ﾊ

We have committed $200 million worth of aid.ﾊWe're the leading donor in the world to help the suffering people there.ﾊWe will commit more over time to help.

We were very much involved at the U.N. on the sanction policy of the Bashir government in the Sudan.ﾊPrior to Darfur, Ambassador Jack Danforth had been negotiating a north-south agreement that we would have hoped would have brought peace to the Sudan.

I agree with my opponent that we shouldn't be committing troops. We ought to be working with the African Union to do so -- precisely what we did in Liberia.ﾊWe helped stabilize the situation with some troops, and when the African Union came, we moved them out.

BUSH:ﾊMy hope is that the African Union moves rapidly to help save lives.ﾊAnd fortunately the rainy season will be ending shortly, which will make it easier to get aid there and help the long-suffering people there.

LEHRER:ﾊNew question, President Bush.ﾊClearly, as we have heard, major policy differences between the two of you.ﾊAre there also underlying character issues that you believe, that you believe are serious enough to deny Senator Kerry the job as commander in chief of the United States?

BUSH:ﾊThat's a loaded question.ﾊWell, first of all, I admire Senator Kerry's service to our country.ﾊI admire the fact that he is a great dad.ﾊI appreciate the fact that his daughters have been so kind to my daughters in what has been a pretty hard experience for, I guess, young girls, seeing their dads out there campaigning.

BUSH:ﾊI admirer the fact that he served for 20 years in the Senate.ﾊAlthough I'm not so sure I admire the record.ﾊ

I won't hold it against him that he went to Yale.ﾊThere's nothing wrong with that.

My concerns about the senator is that, in the course of this campaign, I've been listening very carefully to what he says, and he changes positions on the war in Iraq.ﾊHe changes positions on something as fundamental as what you believe in your core, in your heart of hearts, is right in Iraq.ﾊ

You cannot lead if you send mixed messages.ﾊMixed messages send the wrong signals to our troops.ﾊMixed messages send the wrong signals to our allies.ﾊMixed messages send the wrong signals to the Iraqi citizens.ﾊ

BUSH:ﾊAnd that's my biggest concern about my opponent.ﾊI admire his service.ﾊBut I just know how this world works, and that in the councils of government, there must be certainty from the U.S. president.ﾊ

Of course, we change tactics when need to, but we never change our beliefs, the strategic beliefs that are necessary to protect this country in the world.

LEHRER:ﾊNinety second response, Senator.

KERRY:ﾊWell, first of all, I appreciate enormously the personal comments the president just made.ﾊAnd I share them with him.ﾊI think only if you're doing this -- and he's done it more than I have in terms of the presidency -- can you begin to get a sense of what it means to your families.ﾊAnd it's tough.ﾊAnd so I acknowledge that his daughters -- I've watched them.ﾊ

KERRY:ﾊI've chuckled a few times at some of their comments.ﾊ

　次へ 　前へ

戦争60掲示板へ

フォローアップ:

　

　

　

拍手はせず、拍手一覧を見る

---

★登録無しでコメント可能。今すぐ反映　通常 ｜動画・ツイッター等 ｜htmltag可（熟練者向）
（タグCheck ｜タグに'だけを使っている場合のcheck ｜checkしない）（各説明）

（←ペンネーム新規登録ならチェック）
↓ペンネーム（2023/11/26から必須）

↓パスワード（ペンネームに必須）

（ペンネームとパスワードは初回使用で記録、次回以降にチェック。パスワードはメモすべし。）
↓画像認証
（ 上画像文字を入力）
ルール確認＆失敗対策
画像の URL (任意):

投稿コメント全ログ 　コメント即時配信 　スレ建て依頼 　削除コメント確認方法

---

★阿修羅♪　http://www.asyura2.com/ 　since 1995
　題名には必ず「阿修羅さんへ」と記述してください。
掲示板,ＭＬを含むこのサイトすべての
一切の引用、転載、リンクを許可いたします。確認メールは不要です。
引用元リンクを表示してください。